Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/27/2004 07:05 AM House BUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
        JOINT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE BUDGET AND AUDIT                                                                       
                         April 27, 2004                                                                                         
                           7:05 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Ralph Samuels, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Mike Chenault                                                                                                    
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gene Therriault, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Con Bunde                                                                                                               
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                             
ASCG'S VETERANS' HOME STUDY PRESENTATION                                                                                        
AUDIT REQUESTS                                                                                                                  
SCHOOL DISTRICT COST STUDY REVISION BY ISER                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
SCOTT MILLER, Senior Manager                                                                                                    
McDowell Group                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented ASCG's Veterans' Home Study                                                                      
report.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PAT DAVIDSON, Legislative Auditor                                                                                               
Division of Legislative Audit                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information on six audit requests                                                                 
and answered questions regarding other audit issues.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HENRY WEBB, Staff                                                                                                               
to Representative Ralph Samuels                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Reported on the School  District Cost Study                                                               
revision by ISER.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-4, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RALPH SAMUELS  called the  Joint Committee  on Legislative                                                             
Budget and Audit  meeting to order at 7:05  a.m.  Representatives                                                               
Samuels, Chenault,  Hawker, and  Kohring, and Senators  Bunde and                                                               
Wilken were  present at the  call to order.   Senators Therriault                                                               
and Ben Stevens arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
^APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                              
Number 0030                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  made a  motion to  approve the  minutes of                                                               
March  29,  2004,  and  February   19,  2004.    There  being  no                                                               
objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^ASCG'S VETERANS' HOME STUDY PRESENTATION                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
Number 0040                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS said  that  the committee  contracted  out to  the                                                               
Arctic Slope  Consulting Group  (ASCG), on  a two-part  basis for                                                               
the past two years,  a study on the veteran's home.   This is the                                                               
final piece of that contract, he noted.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                              
Number 0050                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT  MILLER, Senior  Manager, McDowell  Group, spoke  about the                                                               
transition plan [for the State  Veterans' Home] by first making a                                                               
correction to the document before the  committee.  He said that a                                                               
new addendum  has been added at  the end of the  document because                                                               
the  administrative  code  language governing  pioneer  homes  is                                                               
going  to be  changing.    He said  his  company  has prepared  a                                                               
transition plan  for the  Palmer Pioneer Home  to become  a State                                                               
Veterans' Home and  some of the specifics have  not entirely been                                                               
worked out.   He called his report a general  scenario of how the                                                               
current population of the Palmer  Pioneer Home is transitioned to                                                               
the  proportions  that are  going  to  be  needed under  a  State                                                               
Veteran's Home.   Right now  there are  about 17 veterans  in the                                                               
Palmer  Home.    Ultimately,  there  will  be  about  75  percent                                                               
veterans [in the State Veterans' Home]  and the plan looks at how                                                               
that will be phased in, he  related.  The transition period would                                                               
last about two years, he said.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER  explained that there  are two scenarios  described in                                                               
the  plan.   One calls  for  25 percent  of the  veterans on  the                                                               
waiting list of the Fairbanks  and Anchorage Pioneer Homes to end                                                               
up at  the State  Veterans' Home.   The other  plan calls  for 50                                                               
percent  [of those  veterans] to  end up  at the  State Veteran's                                                               
Home.  He  said it is assumed  that any veterans that  want to go                                                               
to the  State Home will  go there.  In  either case it  will take                                                               
about two years  to get to 90  percent occupancy.  At  the end of                                                               
two years the  home will need to attract about  55 or 56 veterans                                                               
from around the state.  The  demand assessment, which was part of                                                               
the original  feasibility study, suggests  that there will  be at                                                               
least  65-70  veterans who  will  want  to  go  to the  home  for                                                               
assisted living  care, and probably  that many again who  will be                                                               
looking for nursing home care by  the year 2015, he added.  There                                                               
is  substantial  demand for  the  number  of  beds that  will  be                                                               
available in this [Veterans' State Home], he concluded.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
[Ron Bisset and Donna Logan  declined to make additional comments                                                               
(via teleconference).]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0520                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER made  a motion that the  Joint Committee on                                                               
Legislative  Budget and  Audit accept  the  State Veterans'  Home                                                               
report  by ASCG,  Incorporated, and  the supplemental  documents.                                                               
There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^AUDIT REQUESTS                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
Number 0650                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
PAT  DAVIDSON,  Legislative   Auditor,  Division  of  Legislative                                                               
Audit, Alaska State Legislature,  referred to a memorandum before                                                               
the  committee  which  lists  six  audit  requests  from  various                                                               
members of  the legislature.   She stated  that the first  one is                                                               
from Chair  Samuels asking  for a review  of recidivism  rate for                                                               
various  treatment  programs,  specifically  identifying  [Alaska                                                               
Court System's]  therapeutic court  programs.  The  audit process                                                               
will  review the  mathematical accuracy  and  methodology of  the                                                               
court's data, and then building  on [those results], will look at                                                               
other therapeutic programs  that are funded by the  state and see                                                               
if recidivism rates can be  developed.  Standardization will also                                                               
be a recommendation, she said.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON explained  that the  second audit  request is  from                                                               
Representative  Chenault  and  looks   at  two  community  center                                                               
grants.   It will be a  performance audit and it  will be limited                                                               
to some  degree because these  are grantees of the  state instead                                                               
of state entities, she said.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  said that the  third audit request is  from Senator                                                               
Ben  Stevens  and  asks  for   a  review  of  the  Department  of                                                               
Administration's (DOA) Public  Employees Retirement System (PERS)                                                               
Board and  the Teachers' Retirement  System (TRS) Board  in terms                                                               
of how  they have been  dealing with recommendations  coming from                                                               
the  various contractors  and specialists  that help  them manage                                                               
their funds.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  asked if  the  scope  [of the  audit]  is                                                               
contemplated to  go into looking  at the  decision-making process                                                               
and the various actuarial policies.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON replied  that  it is  a  relatively briefly  stated                                                               
audit request  that will deal with  how the boards deal  with the                                                               
information  coming  from  their   actuaries  and  what  sort  of                                                               
guidelines  and  policies  PERS  and  TRS  boards  set  that  the                                                               
actuaries  have  to   follow.    She  said   that  the  actuaries                                                               
themselves will not be audited.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0900                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT responded,  "You said  it's briefly  stated."                                                               
He requested a review of any  kind of correspondence the board or                                                               
the department has  that shows whether there is  an indication in                                                               
advance   from  actuaries,   or  anybody,   that  a   problem  is                                                               
developing.  He  said he has been told there  was a similar issue                                                               
regarding   workers'   compensation,   and  that   the   previous                                                               
administration had indications that  a problem was developing and                                                               
those signs were ignored.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS  recognized  that   Senators  Therriault  and  Ben                                                               
Stevens had joined the meeting.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  asked  if  the committee  would  be  moving  into                                                               
executive session to discuss audits.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS replied no.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS said  he wanted  to make  sure that  the [Alaska                                                               
State Pension and  Investment Board] is included  in [the audit].                                                               
He asked Ms. Davidson if another request is warranted.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  replied that the only  the PERS and TRS  Boards are                                                               
included  and she  requested  that the  inclusion  of the  Alaska                                                               
State  Pension and  Investment Board  be  stated as  part of  the                                                               
record.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1042                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS made a motion to  amend his audit request so that                                                               
the Alaska State Pension and  Investment Board is included in the                                                               
audit.    He  said he  wants  to  make  sure  that the  Board  is                                                               
diligently handling the money as well as following the criteria.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS asked if there  was any objection [to the amendment                                                               
to Senator Steven's audit request].   Hearing none, Chair Samuels                                                               
said  that the  amendment  would  be included  in  the motion  to                                                               
approve all of the audits.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1111                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON continued  to explain that the  fourth audit request                                                               
is from  Senator Elton and  Representative Kerttula asking  for a                                                               
review  of the  Alaska  Marine Highway  System's  (AMHS) move  to                                                               
Ketchikan.   That request initially  came in before  the hearings                                                               
and a small  amount of information analyzing  the proposed lease,                                                               
as opposed to a standard  lease contract, was provided, she said.                                                               
Given  the  limited  time  frame  there  was  no  way  to  answer                                                               
questions about how  the move would affect  management or improve                                                               
operations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS  asked if the results  of the audit will  be gotten                                                               
too late and if it is a good use of Ms. Davidson's time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  replied it  will be  more of  an evaluation  of how                                                               
good the decision was to make  that move, because it will look at                                                               
how the  operation has changed  and what the  real cost was.   It                                                               
will  be an  evaluation  post-decision, and  the requesters  knew                                                               
that the  audit would take six  to eight months before  the audit                                                               
is started, she added.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1248                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked when the completion date would be.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON said it is tough  to tell.  The financial part won't                                                               
be  that  tough,  she  opined,   but  the  question  will  be  in                                                               
evaluating the operational changes.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if the  audit is begun six  months from                                                               
now,  and  the move  is  in  the  transition  phase, will  it  be                                                               
difficult to evaluate.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1400                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON replied,  "If it got to be that  point and we didn't                                                               
feel like we  could actually do an evaluation,  what we typically                                                               
would do  is talk to  the requesters and tell  them - even  if we                                                               
went  in right  now  we  wouldn't give  you  a  very good  answer                                                               
because it's  in transition -  and ask if  they would like  us to                                                               
delay the  start of  the audit,  in which case,  the next  one in                                                               
line would come up."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS suggested  that the  start date  could be  delayed                                                               
until almost a year from now.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  said  that  since  the  requesters  are  not                                                               
present to ask  their opinions, he suggested holding  off on this                                                               
audit rather than approving it and delaying the start date.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS   said  he  agrees   and  would  take   that  into                                                               
consideration when  making the final  motion [to adopt  the audit                                                               
requests].                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1539                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  indicated that the  fifth audit request  comes from                                                               
the House Finance Committee and asks  for a review of the Special                                                               
Education Service Agency (SESA).   During testimony on the sunset                                                               
extension for that  agency, questions were raised  about having a                                                               
nine-year  extension.   Senator Green,  as the  bill's [sponsor],                                                               
was seeking a standard four-year  extension.  That audit did have                                                               
some significant  recommendations for  changes in  its operations                                                               
and the  House Finance  Committee found  a compromise  and passed                                                               
out  the nine-year  extension;  however, it  asked  that in  four                                                               
years a sunset audit  be done on SESA so that  how the agency has                                                               
been implementing those recommendations  could be evaluated.  The                                                               
report would be available to  the legislature for review in 2008,                                                               
which  would  have been  a  typical  four-year time  period,  she                                                               
added.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1634                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON  reported  that  the last  audit  request  is  from                                                               
Representative   Weyhrauch  and   asks  for   a  review   of  the                                                               
implementation of a pilot program  for state procurement that was                                                               
authorized in  Chapter 51, SLA 03.   The idea with  that audit is                                                               
to determine if  the implementation of the  program is consistent                                                               
with the testimony that was  provided to the legislature in terms                                                               
of  the  estimated savings  to  be  achieved  and the  number  of                                                               
departments to which it can be applied.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  related  that  the original  statute  was  a                                                               
three-year pilot program, but it took  a year to get the contract                                                               
signed.   He asked if  that was correct  and if Ms.  Davidson had                                                               
looked at the statute.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON  replied that she was  not able to do  much research                                                               
on this request.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  responded that it  is a pilot program  and he                                                               
does not know  if it requests a report to  the legislature at the                                                               
conclusion of  the program two  years from  now.  He  wondered if                                                               
the question doesn't answer itself.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. DAVIDSON said  that this audit request came  in yesterday, so                                                               
she was not able  to do much research on it,  other than find out                                                               
that HB 313 turned into Chapter 51.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT suggested  that before  a motion  is made  on                                                               
this audit request, that it be  moved to the bottom of the agenda                                                               
while he directs his staff to look up the current statute.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS  asked for a motion  to accept audits 1,  2, 3, and                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1853                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT made a motion for  audit requests 1, 2, 3, and                                                               
5 to  be accepted  by the Joint  Committee on  Legislative Budget                                                               
and Audit,  including the amendment to  Senator Steven's request.                                                               
There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^SCHOOL DISTRICT COST STUDY REVISION BY ISER                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
Number 1930                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS  related that as a  result of the peer  review done                                                               
by the  Institute of  Social and  Economic Research  (ISER), ISER                                                               
determined that they  could go in and fix some  of the parameters                                                               
on  cost found  in  the American  Institutes  for Research  (AIR)                                                               
study.   The  issue  before  the committee  is  to  approve of  a                                                               
contract  with ISER  to  go forward  and work  with  AIR on  that                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2000                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HENRY  WEBB,  Staff to  Representative  Ralph  Samuels, as  Joint                                                               
Committee on Legislative Budget  and Audit committee aide, stated                                                               
that there  were three areas  that Professor Tuck said  should be                                                               
cleaned  up  in  the  AIR  study:    travel,  energy  costs,  and                                                               
personnel costs.   He said an  economist would be needed  to work                                                               
through the personnel costs because there  is no way to just plug                                                               
numbers into it.   Professor Tuck estimated that  cleaning up the                                                               
AIR study would not cost more  than $50,000 and he estimated that                                                               
the work  would be done by  mid-December at the latest,  Mr. Webb                                                               
explained.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. WEBB mentioned  that Senator Wilken's staff  is interested in                                                               
using  the  same  model.     He  said  that  Professor  Tuck  had                                                               
suggestions  on  how  to  do  that by  moving  the  program  from                                                               
Microsoft  Access to  Microsoft  Excel because  it  is easier  to                                                               
manipulate and  more accessible.   Professor Tuck  also suggested                                                               
that it would  be good to update this model  every three to four,                                                               
or even five  years, which would cost $10,000 to  $20,000 to have                                                               
a university  economist work  on the personnel  portion.   It was                                                               
suggested  that every  ten years  the whole  model should  be re-                                                               
evaluated, Mr. Webb added.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2151                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN suggested  that [ISER]  move the  schedule up  to                                                               
before mid-December.   He  said it  would be  helpful to  him and                                                               
others to be  able to really digest  the plan.  He  said that the                                                               
issues from  Fairbanks' point of view  are not going to  go away,                                                               
and what was intended to be done  two years ago should not be put                                                               
off any  longer than it has  to be.   He agreed with the  idea to                                                               
update the report every five years.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2330                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT made  a motion  that the  Joint Committee  on                                                               
Legislative Budget  and Audit authorize  the chair to  enter into                                                               
contract with ISER  in the amount not to exceed  $50,000 in order                                                               
to  make  corrections to  the  AIR  School District  Cost  Study.                                                               
There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 7:20 a.m. to 7:23 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS, [referring to the  audit request by Representative                                                               
Weyhrauch],  stated that  there is  no requirement  for a  report                                                               
under  [Chapter  51,   SLA  03].    He  said  he   would  have  a                                                               
conversation with  Representative Weyhrauch,  the sponsor  of the                                                               
audit request to  see if he wants to get  more information on the                                                               
report.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  THERRIAULT, looking  at  the  language from  last                                                               
year's  [Chapter 51],  said it  does  not require  a report,  but                                                               
talks about  a contract, and there  may have been a  component of                                                               
the contract  itself that  required some kind  of reporting.   He                                                               
suggested that  there is  time to find  out more  information and                                                               
get back to it at a future meeting.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SAMUELS   requested  that   Ms.  Davidson   also  research                                                               
[Representative Weyhrauch's] audit request.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON  said she  would  follow  up  on that,  review  the                                                               
request for proposals  (RFP), and find out how  long the contract                                                               
is for.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SAMUELS  mentioned that  a contract  has been  entered into                                                               
with Bonnie Robson,  a consultant to the legislature  on gas line                                                               
issues.   During  the  interim  there will  be  meetings on  this                                                               
topic, he said.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the Joint                                                               
Committee on  Legislative Budget and Audit  meeting was adjourned                                                               
at 7:25 a.m.                                                                                                                    

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